April 5th, 2020

The C-Note Show! transcript, April 5th, 2020

Unknown Speaker 0:00


Jeff 0:00

I am going to record this for those of you that are on. You can obviously turn off your video or turn off your audio. I won't use this for any promotional stuff. The coaches and I, the professional coaches, Steve, Dan and I, want to share this amongst each other for training and topic idea purposes for what matters to you guys right now. The goal of this was to say, "How can we serve guys right now with what's going on?" We just said, "You know, we'd love to just jump on a call one day a week and look, if there happens to be seven of us, or eight of us with Mr. Tim Wade, who I know personally as well, here in Colorado, we'll do it. Let's just jump on each once a day and help. I texted Steve my idea of leading this topic about Masculine and Feminine dynamics and I said that Cynthia Kruse, who is on here today with us, and I would love to talk about this idea. And so this this is for you guys. I know that with social distancing or physical distancing, you're not physically distancing farther from your spouse right now. You're having to be closer to your spouse right now. So as far as in relationships, it's the opposite of physical distancing. And so for some of my clients, "he can't move out right now" or "she can't move out right now" or they see each other way more than they normally do. One of them or both of them are working from home or one of them doesn't have a job right now and how stressful is that? So we wanted to talk about what does masculine and feminine dynamics mean? What does masculine feminine polarity mean? Why do I care about this? How can that help me in my intimate life? My relationship and feeling connected spiritually, emotionally, and physically? And so this is for you guys. So let's see, Cynthia, can you unmute yourself? So Cynthia has multiple degrees. She's a teacher. She's a professional coach. She's run her own practice for about four years. She's beautiful, she's talented, and she happens to be my fiance. So I asked her to come on. I asked her to come on and spend some time with us guys. And she happily agreed.

Cynthia 2:39

I am. extremely, extremely grateful. Thank you for including me in this forum. And it was just amazing Jeff hearing you kind of throw out the numbers of how many men are here with you and I'm staggered and honored to be touched into something where there's so much connection and so much leadership and so many incredible, incredible people here. So thanks for having me.

Jeff 3:09

Oh phenomical, thanks Cynthia. And I'm not gonna be able to say everyone's name, certainly, but I see professional coaches, I see leaders in the forums. I mean, I know we have upwards of three to 400 guys and all the different forums that we support and I'm proud to support so awesome seeing you guys here. I just said in middle again, and then we have over 70 looks like 70 participants right now and that's phenomenal. So let me share a quick outline. I want to get to you guys really fast. Again, give me two seconds with Zoom here. So meeting start share. So, during social distancing, right guys? If you want to go to our YouTube channel, go to That's my website and my company. Cynthia has specific videos on there as well, she has a handful already and is putting more up. Let me go ahead and try the Old Spice commercial. I love this. I'm going to scroll down. I've got a picture of him, just in case I couldn't make it work. I'll give it a shot and then we'll talk about it for a second.

Video Clip 5:22


Jeff 4:42

Oh my gosh. So this commerical ( I thought this was so interesting, right? So he's obviously trying to embody masculinity. And the whole jab that men see all the time in advertisements is you're not fucking good enough. Dude and you're not the man like this guy is right that's that's the underlying jab. But on the surface I think it's hilarious because he's, he's saying something quite feminine honestly, which is "look at me." So the "look at me now- look at him now- look at me" it's basically a shadow kind of lover. It's an underlying funny satirical version of masculinity. That part of it is he's embodying the physical masculinity. It's very close. It's intimate. He's looking right into the camera. He's saying intimate things. So this is like verbal intimacy as well. His voice is low. So he's projecting masculinity in a lot of different ways. You know, and it's an Old Spice commercial. I think it's pretty hilarious. But so Cynthia, I want I want to ask you, what do you what do you see during this time of, I'm going to jam these two things together of social distancing? We're next to our spouse. And I'm supposed to lead in relationship somehow. I read in a book one time, right as a man I'm supposed to lead. And then I see this Old Spice commercial and he's like, "Oh, god, look at me, I'm not this gorgeous man on on a horse with tickets to the thing that she wanted to go to," and then diamonds are flowing from him. So you know, how can he possibly live up to that? And where does even start? So where can a man start? And what are you seeing right now, with with your professional clients with the men and couples that you work with right now?

Cynthia 7:37

That's a great question. I would first just not want to say that. At this time, we're getting up face close with our "humaneness" and that is okay. When really tough things are going on in our lives and in the world, it really invites us to see the humaneness in us and have compassion for that. So that being said, like, you know, what, can a man now do in his relationship? I noticed, especially those first few days when things started feeling really serious in the world, how that kind of inner flutter in me got shaken and stirred, and I was having a really hard time connecting to an idea that there will be another side of this and things will get better. So,I know that when you, Jeff, would sit down and we would have conversations about, "Okay, like, what's the next project? How are we moving forward? What are we excited about? What are you excited about?" It was an incredible gift of masculine presence to kind of uphold vision of things that we're moving forward on. So I would say it's like, again, it's holding the space of we are being asked to really look at our stuff right now and holding a vision of where we go forward. And that to me is what leadership in relationship is. To me, the masculine who carries that ball forward; who talks about the vision, and talks about what we're looking forward to; that is the most attractive thing in the entire world. To me, that's, the energy we are all attracted to. There's nothing more attractive than being that vision holder. To me, that's the biggest strength. And so the first thing to do is start setting aside time when you and your partner can just chat about new things to come.

Unknown Speaker 10:11


Jeff 10:12

So let me ask you about that: "Set aside time for vision." And men, I think we are at 85 men or something like that now. So I'll do my best to look at the chat. I will in a minute ask you to post some questions that you have for us because I want to get a bunch of your questions up front that will guide Cynthia and my conversation and what we will we speak about. I definitely have some things I want to get to but I want to ask for your input as well. So I'll ask you to post in the chat here in a moment. And I'm going to actually call on a couple people that I know from the community including some coaches, I'll try to catch some people to ask a question of this topic and or Cynthia as well, okay, so be prepared for that. But Cynthia, so let me ask you what It looked like to not do those things to not set aside time to not hold the vision. How does a man know if he's messing up? That's what guys asked me a lot as well. Okay, right out of the chute, how do I know what's the opposite of this? How do I know when I'm messing up? And then show me how I can move forward from here. Right? How do I stop making big mistakes right away? What would you say to that question?

Cynthia 11:41

One sign that, there's not a solid and continuing vision that's been brought into a relationship is a woman who is really stressed out and really overwhelmed amd kind of obsessive about details or how she wants things done or how the dishwashers loaded or it's almost like she's kind of wrapped a wall around her. Now that's indicative of saying she's not holding vision, which I mean that's part of her job as well. But that's a really really big sign because the feminine energy when it doesn't have that focus in that vision, that's that's how it that's how it deals with things. It gets very, very stressed out. Very, very obsessive and pretty shut down.

Jeff 12:48

So I want to bounce to our we already got one question from Robert Burns out there who said how do you make plans with your wife in this situation, when she's doing medical school and in the driver's seat? So this is what you just connects to what you just said about her being stressed out and has so many balls in the air. So many things happening.You know, and I would add to Roberts question, How do I know that? How do I know my invitation is a good one? Either whether she likes it or not?

Cynthia 13:23

That's a great question. Plans can be, you know, in an hour, right? It could be I'm making plans next week. It could be 10 years from now. This is the vision that I have for us. And so plans don't have to be an immediate thing. And and yeah, there might be medical school going on for two more years or five more years, and there's a lot of stress there. But there is a magic and a timelessness to vision that when we're holding it and we're talking about it, It actually changes our body chemistry. It starts giving us dopamine and oxytocin and we have visions in our mind and giving that gift to someone who is trying to drive the the car herself, that's huge! So going back to what you said, Jeff, well, how do I know if it's a good offer, even if she is in the driver's seat? And let's say, I do create a vision for you know, this Friday night, we're going to go over to the couch with a glass of wine, and maybe a bowl of popcorn and this is going to be our date night and there's music put on and there's candles. Even if those things she says no to because, "I have to do work. I can't. I can't." Making the offer is creating something new in the other person's mind. It's neuroplasticity: There's another way I could be doing this. And that doesn't have to mean that change happens right away. It's kind of like putting a drop in the bucket. A drop in the bucket toward a new way of doing things.

Unknown Speaker 15:20


Jeff 15:21

Yeah, I love the drop at a time, thought. I talk about little bits of leadership. So the putting putting some popcorn in the microwave and saying, "Hey, let's come over here and sit on the couch and watch something." It's a small way to lead into what you want. I love to say that a positive way to lead; a masculine way to lead is to say what you plan to do as a man. You're not telling her what to do. You're open to feedback and you're open for her saying, "No, I wouldn't like to do that. I'd like to do something else." But to say, "Hey, I'm going to put some popcorn in the microwave. Let's sit down and watch something together," is a way to say what you would love to do what you would plan to do. It's a way to put a drop in the bucket. I love that.

So from Daniels, my wife and I agreed to postpone our Divorce Mediation until after the virus stuff settles down. She's completely shut down. And so she just tries to stay busy through the day until bedtime. We've agreed to live together as roommates until Divorce Mediation other than being a kind of roommate. Is there anything else I can do to let her know that I see her without adding pressure or stress? And I'll relate this to also some other gentleman said that he's realizing that maybe he doesn't even want the relationship necessarily. So I don't want to put anything in any words in Daniel's mouth but let's say basically this is a situational question which I love is obviously very pertinent right now. Is there anything else that he can do when they've sort of agreed to just live as roommates and honestly one or both of them seems a little depressed, right, a little or bored at the very least or frustrated, you know, whatever symptom may be covering all of these of course, deeper issues that are there as well. So yeah, what would you suggest for for her to see for to feel seen without adding pressure or stress?

Cynthia 18:00

Yeah, there are absolutely things that you can do. And again, it is not that you just have to be the vision holder in your romantic relationship. We can hold vision for each other in all sorts of relationships. So even sitting down with your roommate, and talking to her saying, "Hey, when this is over, when things get better, no matter how long that takes, what's something that you're really looking forward to?" Or "What is something you would like to have really grown through and developed in yourself through all this time?" Or just initiating conversation with her where she can talk about deire, goals, dreams, because goals are the things we as human beings that keep us going. It's been the part of our biological survival when we attach to something that we want, we move forward in life and keep growing and changing and showing up for.

Jeff 19:21

So this is a related question to add to that, which is, well, what if she doesn't really want to be led out of that? Or at least her behavior shows that right? What does that mean about me as a man or how can I take a step forward?

Unknown Speaker 19:35


Cynthia 19:42

A woman's world is her emotions and it is okay for a woman to be in an emotional place, even if it's a depressed emotional place. If that for her is how she can cope. That's totally okay. And there's nothing wrong with that, and no one has done anything wrong. And it may in fact, serve a purpose in her own development as a human being. So first of all, it's okay. And second of all, so someone wants to be there. And I think Jeff mentioned earlier from the ad, you know, it's kind of it's a feminine thing to want to be seen, it's just letting letting her know that hey, I'm still here and hey today. You look, you look a little sad. Is there anything that you'd like to talk about? Is there a time each morning, you want to just sit down and share with me about your day? Is there anything that you would like me to know? Just giving her the opportunity to talk about anything or nothing? Just kind of holding up that piece of, "Hey, I'm here. It's okay that you're in this place. If you want to share that's fine." Without fixing it, is an enormous gift that you can give. That's probably the best and one of the best things you could do in this situation.

Jeff 21:12

That so it makes me think of, there's a couple concepts I want to get to today. One is the staircase of intimacy. And there's different types of intimacy social emotional, of course connectedness with her emotional connectedness, physical intimacy, and the other is what I'm what I just coined is that are the two knobs of masculine and feminine. So let's say she's very much in her feminine and wants to express herself and be verbal and you can be in the masculine and be the container for her and listen and not try to fix necessarily but be the container for her storm, that's one way to connect with her or be there for her. What if her, let's say feminine her knobs are turned way down, you know, she's like, up here again and her knobs are turned way down. And she's not really, really wanting to talk. You said that maybe this is a part of her process that she has to go through. I love that. You said that this could be something that she, you and her, are separate people, of course. And then there's the third entity of the relationship, that maybe this is something that she has to personally go through. And that may not have anything to do with you. So how can I know as a man that I'm still doing a good job? I've tried connecting I tried popping the popcorn. I tried offering you know, chuckling and offering a cup of coffee. I tried to you know, kind of brush my hand across your back and it doesn't seem like anything's really going over very well. And she's kind of turtled especially right now. Right? And so how do I know that I'm still doing a good job as a man

Cynthia 23:07

You are doing a good job as a man when you are staying centered in yourself and also having your human moments but recognizing that that is such another human moment. You are doing a good job as a man in a relationship when you continue to hold vision, even if the other person's not engaged. You're doing a good job as a man when you are practicing your own emotional range and awareness that is showing up as a heroic kingly leader-when you are holding your own staff and your own sword and creating your life in a way that when others want to touch into it, it's a it's a true gift for them. And if they can't touch into that right now, that's okay too. You're still holding the space. I like to think about feminine energy feeling more like water, which is wonderful and fun and flowy. And at the same time, watery energy sometimes feels really uncontained, because if there aren't structures or riverbanks, or even a bucket, it's like you feel like you're kind of all over the place. So the masculine holding the container of that Redwood energy, of that mountain lion energy for himself, just him being that is enormous.

Jeff 24:57

Awesome. So the staircase of intimacy, he is the redwood, he's holding that bucket when he needs to. She's ebbing and flowing with either anxiety or just normal pragmatic stuff with the kids or, you know, it's kind of it's day to day and so he's still being that oak. How can he dance up the stairs of physical intimacy? That's definitely a question I saw on here as well, which is another way to say it is, you know, how can he initiate? Let's say sex has not been that often, but he's, he doesn't want to just sit down on the bottom stare and not try anything. So what I talk about, and I'll say is that he needs to understand where he is on the staircase of physical intimacy. You know, sex is not on the table right now, then that's probably not something we're trying to go for on a regular basis, right now, it's just inappropriate, right? And so if we're on Step four, we're not going to try to jump to step eight or nine or 10, we're gonna dance around Step four, Step five, Step six, that kind of a thing. And if she's not enjoying it, then we still are, like you said holding on to our staff of purpose and who we are as a man and not tumbling down the stairs, not crying like a scared little boy not running away, not pouting, not attacking her, you know, not sitting down in the bottom step and throwing a fit, right? It's we understand that and we're okay with that and then we go to our mission for the rest of the world. So I, I'd love for someone to jump in if they have a specific question about this, because I know that when I say the words masculine, feminine, and sex, of course, which is something we're all interested to talk about, and I have a woman on the phone, right? Or on zoom. I think that was just like a grandpa moment. "I have a woman on the phone." It's "Hello, can you hear me? Hello? I have a woman on the phone." Everyone's gonna want to know how do I get more sex in my life. Right? So let's let's try this. Here's an experiment. Let's try to do one at a time. Introduce yourself and say your question.

Paul 27:37

I got a question about vision.

Jeff 27:39

Yep. Paul go for it.

Paul 27:42

You know, Cynthia, you talked about vision of where to go forward and vision holder being the biggest strength and that really struck me. So could you extrapolate a little bit on that for us or expand more on what that vision looks like coming from your perspective, Cynthia?

Cynthia 27:58

Yes. Thank you. Well, let me ask you as well, I mean, that's so that's a strength of yours. How do you how do you practice that? How do you utilize that?

Paul 28:10

Well, I don't think it's a strength of mine at all. That's why I was asking. Okay.

Cynthia 28:14

Sorry, okay. So how do you practice vision? When we can create pictures in each other's minds, there's something exponential that happens there. There's something in our brain that suddenly is like, "I want that and I'm going to try to figure out how to get that." So visuals are huge. If you're not a big visual person there, there are other ways you might tap into that. But finding like so, for example, would you say you're wanting to share this vision for someone else with someone else or you're saying you want to create it on your for your own

Paul 29:02

Well, I, I gotta have my own, obviously. And that's for me. But when you're in a long term relationship, I think you want to have a mutual one that you share together.

Cynthia 29:13


Yes, I would love to offer that you have little mini dates where you and your partner actually sit down together and talk about things that you have desire for. Talk about, hey, what is the value that we also hold in our relationship? How can we bring this value to life? Is growth a really big thing for both of us? How do we want to grow as a partnership and what kind of result will that actually bring us? What can we imagine us doing in that brand new state are we in. Are we walking, hiking in the mountains and are we smiling at each other and feeling so delighted to be in each other's presence? Is there an investment you want to make together that brings excitement because it's bringing in more income? Is it small, little daily habits like we want to make sure that we have like every Sunday morning we sit and we have coffee. Vision, it is something that starts to evolve over time. And it requires that we really touch into some of our deepest core desires without putting a lot of limits on it. And then finding pictures to kind of represent some of those goals for ourselves. Like if you and your wife, Google the picture of walking on the beach that represents the vacation you want to take or a way that you are communicating with each other. Have that picture up somewhere in your house. Even send little text pictures, maybe once a week, to your wife with the visions that you've talked about. These make a huge deal. It's okay to not have perfect clarity. That will evolve over time as long as you continuing to revisit it.

Paul 31:28

Thank you that was a badass answer.

Unknown Speaker 31:30


Jeff 31:33

Love it. Thanks, Paul. Yeah, its the small bits. Cynthia that reminds me even of this morning how I had asked you a question and you said even buying me little tomatoes at the store or coming up and hugging me from behind while I'm cooking something or if I'm on the computer, those little bits of connection are part of the vision for the relationship that you as the you guys as the man need to hold regardless of Kind of what's going on with her right? She may respond or she may not. For instance, I saw in one of the chat boxes was if she's willfully withdrawn, then you have no requirement for the masculine to try to connect with her or lead or influence the feminine. Continued pursuit. Garner's more disrespect and agitation. So I'd say there's certainly a way to be overly in pursuit and overly annoying, if you will, and overly Hummingbird and overly, you know, try to send her texts every day, if that's too much for her that's too much for or if you're trying to jump up to step four, or five, and she's really on step one or two of the stairs of emotional or physical intimacy, it's going to feel like too much to her. And I disagree, though, that we then don't have some ownership there within the relationship to lead as the masculine within the relationship. So there's you, there's her, and then there's the relationship and if she's withdrawn, and if you personally don't feel like she's walking across the bridge towards you, I can understand. But you still don't want to just sit down on the steps and give up. I mean, unless you've already decided that the relationship is over, which is a different conversation, that we still, let's say, owe, it as the masculine as the man as as one of the people within the relationship to put some efforts into that relationship. And if we expect any kind of physicality to grow in any way, we are going to need to walk across the bridge toward her within physicality as well within leadership and emotional connection as well. So there is a point where if she said that, so you're right that if she said I don't want to see Again, I don't want to touch you, I don't ever want anything. Again, it's definitive. My lawyers called the 12 times sign the papers Get away from me, then we shouldn't be attempting anything whatsoever. But I disagree if she's just withdrawn right now. And if this is just the place that she's in right now that we still do owe it to the relationship, to put our best foot forward or masculine manly foot forward there. I'd love for someone else to jump on and ask Cynthia a question about, you know, let's open it up a little bit. I want to let's talk specifically about masculine feminine dynamics because that's the topic and maybe how I can move forward in a particular situation, or, you know, help me with a feminine insight because "she's not talking To me."


John 35:06

I got a question. Can I go? Yeah. JOHN, right. Hi, everybody. Cynthia, thank you for being here. I really appreciate your presence. It's a it's a definitely a change of pace for these calls. So I'm enjoying it. So in my life, I started separation in January, and I've got three kids and, and, you know, I've had visions, and my wife has been on this long journey to try to become a midwife, and it's kind of had its ups and downs, and it's ended up being like a 10 year journey. It's only halfway through. And anyways, so ever since we started separation, just like all of our vision just died. And, like, all of a sudden, like I had all these projects, I want to do all the house and run a house and all of a sudden, it's like, well, I don't even know if we're gonna have our house anymore. So So I got uninterested in doing projects and just like all their vision is dead. So things look really bleak. And in a situation where just it seems like your visions are dead, like how do you how do you start them up again? what's what's a good approach? They're like, here's an example. I, this year is our 15 year anniversary and I vision of going on like a going some Island somewhere. Well, that didn't happen. So, so what, what, uh, what you have to as a suggestion of a way to kind of restart vision?

Cynthia 36:37

And just to clarify, so you, you and your wife are going through a separation if you are planning to be separated?

John 36:45

We are roommates, roommates, I'm living in a guest. She's in the master bedroom. Okay, she's not having a good time. She's really struggling with this physical distancing.

Cynthia 36:59

Well First, please know that to have to feel like all your vision just went out the window like that is so so normal. And I've I' actually experienced that myself where a vision I would say this about two years ago vision was pulling me forward. I had like vision boards, I did this I had like intentions and I was all for it. And then things changed and before I knew I was like literally lying on the carpet of my office feeling like I just couldn't eat couldn't move. It was like what? What's gonna get me forward what what is my goal? What's exciting to me and it felt so it felt so odd to not be connected to that. So I just want to say that I did feel like it got smooshed away is is totally normal and especially with the state of the world right now. I think people are experiencing that things. They've built for years and years and years are suddenly very, very different. So you your question, I think when you find it for yourself, you're going to be able to gift that to other people in your lives who are in a similar place. So how do you how do you begin? How do you restart? It's wondering if your desires that you had, I'm wondering if there's something that's even deeper beneath them that you're truly wanting? Is there? If you were to really ask yourself, what is beneath this? What is it? That's most important to me? Like? We were supposed to go away on this trip and everything but what about that was so exciting to me? Was it the adventure? Was it the idea of connection and relationship? Do you have a feeling on that about what's deeper was the deeper Behind that desire,

John 39:03

I was trying to be better, how can I get

Cynthia 39:06

to be better husband? And when you imagined going on that vacation and doing that with a partner? What did you imagine that you would both be sharing together that you would get to experience? Well being their

John 39:25

romance separate from our kids is like a honeymoon. So? Yeah. Just the notion that it's been forever, since we've had more than like, a day away from the kids. But, yeah, I mean, that's, that's, I mean, that's one specific vision, which, I mean, here's another vision. Like, my wife wants to be hired. And I was going to surprise with that. And that's just a simple little thing. We have all these little projects on the house. One thing that is starting to small crop up is, since this virus pitch, she's thinking more about sustainability. And she's starting to do a garden again. So that's something I'm trying to tap into, I think, I guess. Yeah, cancer question. I mean, want to go back to that place where we were, you know, in love on an island somewhere is from where I'm at presently on what's capable.

So I recognize that and I'm not even thinking about it too much. But it was a vision that was there. It's not dead. So

now, thinking of smaller, easier to achieve visions, but I'm still, I'm still in this place where I've spent so long supporting her vision that I don't, I'm creating enough vision At this point, I don't know. Like, it's not clear if if our vision is together.

So I don't know. It's

not with that, I guess.

Cynthia 41:12

I think you like even put your finger on it. It's like, what are you wanting for yourself and that's super hard right now because it's, it hasn't been about you. It's about, you know, what you're sharing with her. So your job right now is to first have patience with yourself to know that, you know, life got turned upside down, and it's going to take some time to develop new vision. It will come though, and it will be more powerful than before because it's going to be about you. So your job is to start just a daily practice of journaling or even writing down what are you wanting what what would make you feel good in this particular day. If you Want to jump ahead 10 years and you could imagine life with a partner who you felt really connected to? Is there some desire there? It could be as silly as you know what I really am just really wanting chocolate, right? That's gonna be one of my desires today. It's like you're building this muscle, and you're just going to keep practicing it and then you're going to start having some clarity, but be patient, because it is a muscle and it's okay to need to strengthen it.

John 42:33

Thank you,

Jeff 42:35

john. That was that was fantastic. Yeah, we actually have a few people that put their hands up Dan, Dan door mentioned that to me. Hey, Jeff, look over in there. There's people that their hands up. Okay. That's how this works. So Cindy, if you don't mind, I'm gonna grab Sohail. So Haley there and I just unmuted you. Hey, buddy. Yeah, please jump in. As

Sohail 42:54

always, thank you for this session today. And I enjoy that Cynthia is joining. It's just very good to see You know, opinion from the feminine side? So my question is that, you know, both of you mentioned about, you know, creating polarity and just little moments in life, you know, just, you know, hog when she's cooking or just little moments that you can have. Now, my question is that if you live long distance, and you have your just toolboxes very limited in what you can do, to create those little moments is basically text or call, right. So do you what do you think? What is what what would you do if you were in a long distance relationship? That you get to see each other maybe every other week or something like that? Is that still something you can do to keep that polarity going?

That's my question.

Cynthia 43:43

Yeah, absolutely.

And again, I think we're at a time where it's not just you having to figure this out right now. It's like a whole world. So once you start getting your own tips and tools, you can pass pass that along.

Amazon is an amazing thing. Because you can send everything from you know, sexy lingerie to someone to the funniest, cutest like coffee mug with a great saying on it. Those like little touches mean a lot. It's that surprise that dopamine hit of someone getting to open something, they have no idea what's going to be inside. So I would recommend that that is an additional way right now to connect and create polarity. And then there also can be like games back and forth with that you can invite your partner What are they going to send you and is it something that you need? as well.

So I think that's one that's an additional way. I'm wondering, Jeff, from your perspective, what else might you think?

Jeff 44:53

Yeah, I definitely have some other ideas. If we put it into some context, though, so so hail for you. Right, what's the relationship? Like in this instance? Is it you know, is it your wife? Is it your separated wife? Is it a girlfriend? Like, what's the situation?

Sohail 45:11

So the question was very general for me because I, you know, as you know, I'm just, I'm separated right now. So I'm not trying to create clarity necessarily, but I feel like there are certain things I didn't do in my previous relationship and kind of trying to figure that out, you know, so what could I have done it's just kind of reviewing my you know, maybe past relationship trying to learn from it. And that's that's the context of the question. No, that is not you know, not Yeah,

Jeff 45:37

Can Can I put you on the spot and ask you what, what was some of the most racy stuff that I suggested that you try? And I you know, now you're now you're now your exes and you're separated, right? But what's something that I talked about in your particular instance, because you live in two different houses, and you see each other right each other once a week? What did I suggest was the most like racy thing

Sohail 46:01

If you have things like creating it in another email account with another guy's name, I think we talked about that, to send her like a creative persona. And work on that, you know, create some sort of a persona or some sort of

Jeff 46:16

series. Yeah, she knows it's you. Yes. Before anyone gets any really weird ideas, she knows you, but you're playing and acting as a different persona. It's like you're, you're building a love story from one side as a new character with her over email. That was one suggestion, yeah, that you did back then you would go back and forth, right? Or she would read parts of it. And you would build it over time, that and you can make that as racy as he wanted to. Right. So Cynthia's point, the vision within the story you could be writing about could be as sexual or not as you want. You know, it could be how you're going to rent a car and drive in southern Italy and taste the wines throughout the vineyards as you go. And you could write a story about that. And she could I read that story that you sent her maybe once a week, but over a different email account. And the different email account idea I got from Esther parral. That's Derek Burrell with where one email is pragmatic daily stuff and another is more sensual intimate, where you've turned up the knob of your masculinity. And she let's say in this metaphor knows to receive that in a way that's feminine. That's the goal hopefully, is that this is the fun, racy, sexy or however you want to put it. Email. Yes. Remember, remember anything else that I suggested for you?

Sohail 47:36

I didn't get to just practice a lot of this but you know, which is good to know. I'm then you know, creating some dates atmosphere and you know, things like that, which I tried and you know, didn't work at a time but you know, that was a different situation. Yeah, that's, that's, I think that this is the most interesting thing I remember right. And I really wanted to try it but never get to so

Jeff 48:00

Yeah, well, you know, again, real quick, you decided based off and this is pertinent to everyone here in the call that we're doing right. So you decided based off of your values that you did not want to move forward with the relationship. Is that fair to say? That's great. Yeah. You've said that online. You've said that in men's groups. I felt like that was okay for me to say, Is that fair to say? Sure. Yes, yes. Yes. And so it wasn't so much that. In my opinion, it wasn't so much you didn't know what to try. It was that you didn't want to continue forward with this woman because of her, let's say lack of vision for relationship. She didn't really want you know, it wasn't about relationship with you. It was about these kind of one off dates, or these one off interactions without any. Yeah, without any relationship. Is that true? Is that fair to say?

Sohail 48:49

That's correct. Yes. Yeah, it's not like, I mean, I tried I tried, you know, some dating ideas. Some other things you know, at home dating at the time and corner was he not here and outside also, but that's Yes, correct. I mean that all of these turns out to be just a one off things rather than a working towards relationship because she was not really into it. So that's kind of I did my half of the work, but the other half wasn't there. That's why I decided, you know, I'm not going to just beat the dead horse basically.

Greg 49:19

Yeah, right.

Jeff 49:20

Yeah. Well, that's a huge thank you for, you know, saying that, because there's a lot of men in that spot. And there's three outcomes to this work. It's either you're phenomenal and you try version 2.0 the relationship, you're phenomenal. And you know, she doesn't want to try that and you become single and you date other women, or you're phenomenal and you try and you get back together and you decide that you don't want to be with her any longer. So it's really this work. You become an amazing man and confident and grounded and sort of know the tools and the mindsets and the emotional mindsets and the concepts but you may not want to be with the woman that she is after you grow. So with the, you know, 93 great guys that we have on here, you know, you guys, you're the top whatever point 01 percent or point 1% of men that want to grow and know this stuff and are moving forward in the world and want to connect a deep, passionate, intimate relationship like I do like Cynthia does. Right? So this is a unique thing. So she's gonna circle back at some point, probably when another guy makes a mistake. Or if you're split up, that doesn't mean you have to stay split up. But you have to know what your values are. That was Cynthia's point with. You have to have a vision for yourself. That's powerful. And so it sounds so real. Like you do have vision for yourself now. And so you're not being kind of batted around by the storm any longer. You know, your ship is headed in one direction and what what if she wants to keep storming or not? That's her choice, but you don't want to have a storm over you every single day. Right? So it's okay, I'm ready. I'm headed this way.

Sohail 50:58

Absolutely. I agree with both of you. Do this, you know that that value or that vision that you guys are talking about, that's what I got to after how many months I mean, six, seven months of working with you and other guys, I'm just talking a lot. I reached the point that, you know, it's just it's easy to say that and I heard it a lot and didn't really get value as they say that the relationship is a cherry on top. So you need to have your own life, you get everything there and then you have relationships at top. If you want to build your entire life based on relationship, that's when the problem becomes important because you can take that relationship off the base of your your life, and then everything falls off. That's what happened to me. Right? I don't think it's the right approach anymore. I think I just need to have my own life and if there is a relationship great, you know, that adds to me, but I never should put relationship as a I mean, I don't know maybe it's a controversial thing because it's old fashioned. I talked to some people that don't agree with this. Do you think relationships should be the basis of your life if you're both committed to but for me At this point, I don't think this should be the right way to move forward in your own life with all the structures and all the pillars that you want to live based on all the values, and then if there is a relationship top great, if not still great. Yeah, that's just the way I'm thinking about it.

Jeff 52:16

Yeah, I agree with that completely. I think if both of those things are there, that's fantastic. Culturally, there's different. There's different, you know, powers in the war in the past, there's different influences than there were in the past. Right. And also, I find that if this Disney story of well, the relationship ship should be everything. If that's sort of a catch all, or it's covering the real work of knowing who you are and what you want, then that's baseless. Also, I mean, if you have both of those things, if you have the work, and then the romance and the amazing connection that there can be that's phenomenal, but just saying, Oh, well, it should be this Disney way without the work is just is going to crumble down the road Anyway, you know, just blindly believing something doesn't make it real. And a lot of us got a lot of us I think I just described a lot of our paths of believing the fucking Disney video his story, I think, what did I say? I told Cynthia I watched Cinderella next to my sister 50 times when I was a kid, you know, my we had a VHS in the frickin van. I thought we were hot shit and we could play it on the tiny TV, you know, in the van like with the VHS tape, like a What are we gonna watch Cinderella for the 48th time? What do you think we're gonna watch? You have a little sister? Like, that's what you're gonna watch Cinderella. Anyway, so I all of us thought that the Disney story was what we were supposed to do. Be the nice guy and all that right. And yeah, there's a lot more to it than that. Right. Cool. So hell, thank you so much.

John 53:51

Thank you very much. That

Jeff 53:52

was absolutely say Shawn, you've been looks like you've been waiting and there's a let's see if my internet catches up here. I'll try to take you off of mute here in a second. My zoom is like, my zoom is taken applause here. Let's see.

There we go. I think I just my internet hiccups. Shawn, I just hit on mute on you. You've been waiting for a while. Can you hear me Shawn?

Shaun 54:15


Jeff 54:16

awesome. How you doing? Yeah, good.

Shaun 54:18

Doo doo doo appreciate you guys doing this. um you know I struggle a little bit in the beginning when my wife wanted push for a divorce and then we went through this basically a separation. So I live in the house for six months and decided that it wasn't the best thing. So I moved out. Um, now that I've been working on myself, it goes back to what we just said is, you know, at the end of this just kind of kind of wondering if I wouldn't even want to get back with my wife. Um, at this point um, Because I, you know, I feel myself changing and, and I just don't know what all that would look like trying to go back to something where she, you know blatantly said that she was emotionally detached. She didn't want to be with me, you know, all these things and I'm getting to a point where, uh, how long does this drag on? You know, and especially if we're kind of in this part right now where she's working on herself. I'm working on myself. We have two beautiful kids. And we're balancing that and we're co parenting really well. I mean, that that part is pretty stellar. But, um, we have yet to do anything in regards to the relationship side of things at all. It's just put been put on hold. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, and, you know, these these things, and that's why I was kind of wondering, um, I don't know Cynthia can kind of chime in on this. And, you know, from her perspective, you know, it doesn't seem like my wife is going to be willing to change the way she interacts on a daily basis within our relationship she was more of more controlling more and more more in a power position at work, and then that transition home, she just really couldn't turn that off. Um, so then that led me into trying to figure out ways how to please her and then it's this nice guy thing, and then it went down, you know, just the whole whole thing and then her losing respect for me and, you know, the resentment on my side and it just wasn't healthy. You know, so

Cynthia 57:00

So as your thank you for sharing that and, and I feel like pulled in two directions. Honestly when you first mentioned you're like, you know, so much of my life has changed I've done so many good things like I'm in this position I don't even know if I'm gonna go back there the part of me that I, you know, I spent a lot of my 20s and 30s getting into relationships that were not beneficial for me and learning how to go you know, I'm worth more than this and taking a step away, going wow, I just learned so much more about my worth my value what I'm truly wanting, and I'm really grateful for those, those opportunities. So the that part of you that 2030 something is like Awesome, like, I pet like you are so powerful in your life. And that's incredible. There's another part of me that wants to ask what is like the one thing that if your wife did differently, you would find some freedom and movement like, Ah, this could be different. But what would the one thing be?

Shaun 58:29

I think what what ended up happening was is she she offered, by the way have too much support. At some level during our relationship. I was I was working on starting a basketball training business and all these things. And at that time, I didn't know what capacity I needed her support and what it ended up being Is is I think it was just too much. And I just didn't know what to do with it. I didn't I didn't know. It almost became smothering to where I just, I didn't know what the energy was, but I just didn't like it. And I didn't know how to express it to her in a way that you know what, come across. Yeah, in a way that she would understand it. I still really, really don't understand it myself, you know,

Cynthia 59:32

but all you know, is that whatever energy it was, it was like claustrophobic smothering. You couldn't breathe

Shaun 59:38

Yeah, and then I fell. Because going through that and starting the business, um, you know, she she was working full time. I was working full time as a phys ed teacher. But then, you know, there was this business side that I was trying to create and eventually got up and running. And then she would come home. And I would be working on it. And I always felt this. Oh, I gotta be doing something different now because she she came in the room like, I can't work on my own thing now I can't do for me, you know, so so I got lost in that. Sure. Yeah, I got lost in the individual individuality of me investing in myself because investing in myself is going to carry out in benefit my wife, my kids, but I always felt bad about doing that. So what held me back for quite a long time getting the business up and running because I always felt it was selfish.

Cynthia 1:00:44

Yeah. Do you feel like now that you've moved into owning yourself like what you're doing what your vision is, you know, not feeling bad about doing this. Do you feel like that's because the energy between two people is it goes like this. There's this in family systems theory talks about there's like the over function ER and the under functioning relationship. And whoever's over functioning caretaking kind of gets a lot of energy from that because the other person's kind of down here. So when this person starts to shift, this dynamic has to change because it's going to be Have you seen anything shift like that?

Rob 1:01:25

Yeah, I've seen through her she she's, you know, mentioned the, you know, prior to all this COVID stuff, that she wanted to start hanging out again as friends. Um, you know, these types of things. And so, I've noticed her go from basically wanting a divorce separation, and then basically saying that she's emotionally detached to now saying that I'm nowhere near where I was when I sat down the first time and told you that so she is shifting But I don't. Now I'm kind of on the other side of it. And I'm kind of calloused a little bit in in holding back my emotion stores or because I don't trust at this point I don't trust her right now with my emotions.

Jeff 1:02:20

Yeah Shawn let me jump in. So yeah, what is your next step for you as a man that I i smirked like 10 seconds ago the same time you smirked? Yeah. Which was the shoes on the other foot a little bit. Yes. Right. And so what what's your next step as a man then some to become clear within your own self of where you want to lead here and that's once one of Cynthia's questions of what's your vision for the relationship, whatever you whatever that is co parenting, you know, dating her, but you have to kind of decide pretty quick because when she you know, if she opens herself up for flower starts to bloom to you. Right. And that's met with harshness, then that can be, you know, that can be tough to move forward from I'd love to hear Cynthia about that too. But yeah, what's your what's your step for here, Sean?

Shaun 1:03:14

Right now I just solely focus on myself. My daughter's right now I'm in in and I mentioned yesterday in, in the group that was going on yesterday. Um, you know, I'm a phys ed teacher, and you know, I'm not teaching right now. So I have my daughter so so it's, it's flipped, because during the school years, school school year, my wife had my daughter's throughout the week. So now it's flipped. Now. I had my daughter's during the week. So I can see emotionally she's struggling, and she's struggling pretty bad. And I brought up yesterday that she even mentioned me coming back into the household. And I immediately set a boundary on that because I Number one, were not healthy in our relationship to come back together in that household. And number two in this, the biggest one is, I don't want to put my daughters through that, again, if we're not healthy, I don't want to be in there. And then, you know, two months, three months, and I'm out of the house again, because that's not healthy for them. So I kind of put a boundary on that and in said to her, that she and she's openly admitted that she needs help and support for things that deal with things in the past of you know, her upbringing. And she's finally found a therapist and things like that. She's She's seeking out help. But that's going to be a process and I'm going to need to see change on her part. I'm going to need to see change. Otherwise, I can't step back into a relationship. I just know that right now. I just cannot do it.

Jeff 1:04:51

Well, yeah. Let me jump in. Sean, that's a really big question right there. Where it's sort of I've been doing my work as a man to some extent, for for whatever reasons she's kind of come back around it seems which that's a whole other conversation of why or whatever. Right now right now it's a bit different to with lack of income and and feeling lack of safety might be causing some us to grasp people who are close to us as well. That's a different situation. But when we're maybe not feeling it, what's the next best step for us to lead going forward when we're not sure? If that's a huge place, right? It's where you are, Shawn? Yeah.

Shaun 1:05:29

Yeah, yeah. And that and that part of it is is lately is do I do I continue with the separation not knowing where it's going? Or do I do I step forward and make a decision? And what I want to do, you know, do do i do i make a decision about the relationship?

Jeff 1:05:53

So let me jump in real fast. What I've coached men is, what would you want to see and this is what Cynthia also asked as well. Way, what would you want to see from her that would give you warm and fuzzies on the inside would make you feel like, Oh yeah, she's stepping across the bridge towards me. Or I can take a solid step forward and feel like the ground with that new step isn't going to crumble underneath me. Because we've agreed to blank, you know, so I put it a different way we want to play together. And we want to grow together, right? within a boundary. Right? So if you drew, let's say, a basketball court, and within the basketball court, there's a basketball we want to play together. And there's a book, we want to learn together within the rules within the boundaries of the basketball court within the rules of the basketball game, you know, so we can play horse, we can shoot the ball, however we decide we can don't have to play, you know, five on five, we can do whatever, but it's within the court within the game that we're playing. And so you it's sort of you both, but you have to decide first what court do I want to play on and what game am I playing And then I can invite her to have fun with me and learn with me or have fun with me and grow with me is a secure, what I just described is a kind of a metaphoric way of we want security, fun and growth within our relationship. You know? So that's what it sounds like is where you are. Yeah. So Cynthia, I'd love for you to chime in on where Sean is right now. With that, that place of, how do I ask to see from her certain things? It's sort of like we're walking across the bridge toward one another. Yesterday, she wasn't really walking. And today, it seems like she's rough. She's walking a little faster, but I'm tentative and I'm not sure. Right, Shawn? Right.

Shaun 1:07:48

Yeah. And I and I, like I said, I don't trust her. Her emotions are not emotion. I just at this point, I don't trust Her with my emotions right now. I just don't. I just don't. Yeah.

Cynthia 1:08:12

Yeah. And that's, that's okay to be in a place of kind of hold the hold up and have a wall. I mean, it's okay to make sure that there's not going to be landmines that if if you step out in this one area is just going to explode. So it's a that is okay. And I'm I'm wondering if during this time because Jeff, I think you ask the question of like, how do I invite this woman into start doing things that, you know would be part that would make the relationship seem alive and viable to me. I would say right now, the first step is to kind of like with tapping into vision, like finding with some such clarity what you want in a partner. And so, while we're in this place of uncertainty of, you know, how we're all living, how we're all doing things and your uncertainty of like I can remember I don't know if I can trust her with my emotions. This is your exploration time to read what you can to notice in the, you know, people around you what you appreciate about them about their femininity, or just their humaneness or how they deal with emotions, and start writing that down.

Shaun 1:09:42

Okay, so you're just

John 1:09:45

basically saying,

Yeah, I don't think so.

Shaun 1:09:48

To be observant and to kind of take in and kind of formulate my what what I would like is in regards to honor her.

Paul 1:10:01

She wants to uphold her like 100 times, let's

Cynthia 1:10:03


John 1:10:06

do it tomorrow, but

Cynthia 1:10:09

okay. And actually, it's, it's out of her, but at a broader perspective, just out of a partner. So there's a little bit of space that it has to be heard because then our mind starts going well, she's never going to do that. Your clarity around this, all of a sudden, the conversations that need to happen, happen so much easier. And with your clarity around this, there's not the hidden resentment that I'm sure you're kind of afraid might pop out. Your clarity around this decreases the fear that someone's going to hurt us. Because when we're so tapped into, this is what I want, this is what I'm worth. It doesn't matter so much what other people say about us or to us.

Shaun 1:11:00

Appreciate it. Thank you, Cynthia. Thank you, Jeff.

Jeff 1:11:02

Yeah, Shawn, fantastic question. And I, you know, for everybody else to add, journaling is this kind of monster under the bed that we don't want to look or we think needs to be really hard or anything like this. It rolling over and writing down two sentences next to you in your journal. It is great texting yourself, you know, a voice memo that you just add to as you go along. It's, it's whatever is going to work for you. It does not have to take very long at all. Right? So the, I want to try to remove the excuses of why I'm not writing or why I'm not journaling, right. Yeah. Awesome, Shawn. Appreciate it. Thanks. So we're, we've got about 19 minutes left. If you have not punched your email into the chat if you want to contact with me or it's Cynthia ongoing. If you'd like to ask her a question. If you'd like to be able to email either her or me a question punch your email into the chat and we will get back with you Not obviously not spent. And we're not adding you to any kind of spam list or anything like that. It feels like I have to say that. So let's get to a couple more calls if we can. Looks like Rob. Rob, stellar. I'm gonna unmute you. Thanks for waiting, buddy there, Rob.

Rob 1:12:14

I'm here.

Jeff 1:12:15

Awesome. Go for it. Thanks a lot.

Rob 1:12:19

Jeff, gentlemen, a lot of you recognize me, I've been shooting my mouth off for a couple days on here. I'm the guy who has been through a lot of this and come out the other side into a bit of a renaissance in my relationship. And as I was watching the chat room, what I'm seeing as a lot of guys, who are in that very low point where you're in that separation sort of phase and I would dare say that this isolation has shown a lot of those relationships right into a bit of a crucible. And my wife and I went through a 90 day in home separation. And again, we have three beautiful daughters and like Sean, I'm a high school phys ed teacher. But a couple of comments. Step one on my journey was what seemed calls detachment. And it was being able to understand that if my marriage ended if I had to move on that did not speak to my worth as a man. And you know, there's 90 some guys on here and I guarantee every one of you is a high achiever. Every one of you has high expectations for yourself and people around you and we're just not used to looking failure in the eye. And for me, reframing that, you know, at that bottoming out point and saying okay, however this moves on however I moved on, I'm going to be okay. And Jeff, you you summed it up really well. Those three options exceptional. The next step was particularly when you're in that adversarial phase was a behavior Particularly with respect to your partner according to your own set of principles, and I remember distinctly, you know, this stuff running through my head and going, Well, I'm not doing that and then she'll she realize how much I do and I had to stop myself and go, Wait a minute, I need to write Hey,

Jeff 1:14:13

Rob, I'm gonna jump in. I'm gonna stop you real fast. before. So, I'm gonna take you a different direction. Okay, ready? Yep. Have you written these things down?

Rob 1:14:25

Have you? I have no.

Jeff 1:14:26

Okay. So here's your homework, you're going to write these down, and you're going to post them in the chat, or a link to your writing, maybe a Google Doc link, you know, tomorrow and the next day think there's what two or three more of these and you've been on pretty much every day, right? Yep. Okay. So write this down for us, because I would love to listen to you. Right? And that's totally cool. But if you write it down, it's all it's cathartic for you and it's helpful and learning for you and it allows us to use it as a resource to okay, right like, just to reference so the guys here and send out okay? So what we've got since we got Cynthia on, let me ask you, you're a renaissance man in your relationship. What does that what does that mean? What is masculine, feminine dynamic mean to renaissance man like you Rob?

Rob 1:15:09

Oh, Jesus, I would I would never label myself a renaissance man what I think I said, I was experienced granting a renaissance of the relationship. So yeah, what does that mean? It was it was kind of a rekindling? Well, it's, you know, coming through that dark time and recognizing the man that I want it to be. And to be honest with you, is the man that I was as a younger man, but somewhere along the line, you know, marriage and jobs and parenting, and added all that stress and burden and brought out some stuff in me that I didn't like, and I had to pull it apart. But what it means is going from a place where I thought I had everything figured out to understanding that I need to move on and grow. And the other big thing for me was being able to speak the appropriate emotional language and again, living in a house with four women. Man, there are skills that I don't have naturally I Teach and coach nothing but boys. And it's like, I'm either manic depressive or, you know, what's the word bipolar? So, but but learning to speak a different and more resonant emotional language for the women in my life was was huge for me. Emotional intelligence.

Jeff 1:16:18

Yeah, that's incredible. That's phenomenal. Can you give us a couple of examples? Do you have some go twos that work?

Rob 1:16:24

Well, yesterday I referenced Gary Chapman's five love languages. And when my wife and I did an inventory of the love language, we're like diametrically opposed. The way I express my love to her is the exact opposite of the way she feels my love. So I had to reorganize. reprioritize and understand instead of going well, why is why is she not appreciative and because she was like I was I was speaking an entirely different language to her. But once I began to become accustomed to expressing my love in the way that she felt it not heard it, but felt it Then it was it was more resonant. Right? And that's, you know, yeah. So that's probably That's

Jeff 1:17:06

beautiful. I love that. So Cynthia, you've said that a woman wants to feel seen, heard, understood, and felt. And Rob just beautifully described how he, number one reprioritized what I want in my love languages may not be what she wants. It's like, Oh, my God, I Why didn't we think of that before? Right, Rob? And then the second is, wow, how can I really help her feel seen and heard and understood?

Cynthia 1:17:36

Yeah, thank you, Rob. I love that is a steep learning curve living with four women and thank you for all the work you've done around that. It's very much appreciated. Yeah, I think I want to restate the idea again that, women come first. from a place of emotion, so if we're allowing, if you're allowing your partner, that that is the priority and to talk about something from an emotional place, that is the one of the biggest gifts that you can give her. And likewise, I think that, you know, as a woman, I it's also part of my job to understand that the men in my life aren't necessarily coming first with the emotion or an action might need to happen first, and that takes priority over the emotion. And it's my job to be respectful and honoring of that. So that being said, I mean, there's kind of a couple of phrases that we can all use for each other because we're not going to get it right every single time. And as much as I have spent the past 10 years studying Allison Armstrong and David data and all The different ways that masculine communication and feminine communication are different it still is like a daily often learning curve to remember that someone else you know has a different can come from a different language and have different needs in that. So two really key phrases you can use to help that the woman the women in your life feel seen and understood in that emotional place is helped me understand. And is there anything more you'd like to share? Or is there anything more you'd like me to know about that? And to them just to share with you the details, without there needing to be a fixed or rhyme or reason. That is, that is awesome.

Jeff 1:19:52

Yeah, I'm typing that down.

So help me understand and is there anything more you'd like me to know about that?

Cynthia 1:20:06

I would even say,

Jeff, even when you just invite me to talk about my day, even if I didn't have something that was readily there, or I was internalizing it, just you offering that space, and me knowing that I could share everything from Yeah, a little crazy to walk into the grocery store and have there be no chicken today to something funny to something that I'm proud of just something that I was angry about with someone, and just that be the space feels amazing and wonderful and connected with and see.

Jeff 1:20:44

Thank you. I was just thinking when when, you know, you come up and say I just want to say hi, I'm just coming up to say hi to you. That's actually a really special thing. And I think we as guys don't don't recognize that sometimes. Just to go up and say, Hey, it came up just to say Hi, there's no other I'm not trying to get anything. I'm not trying to spring anything on you. I'm not trying to get sex. I'm not telling you some bad news, or tell you that I just spent money on something. And are you gonna be mad at me about this? You know, Hey, guys, you gotta be saying hi, and connecting in a fun masculine way when you don't have some bad news all the time, right.

So be aware of that. Yeah.

Let's get to let's Rob, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. But let's, let's try Greg. Greg bronzer.

Greg. I just unmuted you there, bud.

You guys have been waiting a long time. So if Greg's not there right now, we'll come back to him.

How about Joshua Peterson? Joshua.

Greg 1:21:50

Sorry, I had my mic on the wrong one.

Jeff 1:21:51

All right. Great. Good boy.

Greg 1:21:53

Yes. Wait. Well, let's talk the whole time. I didn't realize I was on the wrong.

Jeff 1:21:57

Okay, go for Greg. Yeah, good to see.

Greg 1:21:59

Thank you for doing So I wanted to bring up you know, my wife and I separated three weeks ago into a renter that we're nesting. So the kids are in the main house and we're splitting an apartment. And so in the middle of all this, we're now isolated. She was already dating people, other men. Prior to the separation. We have been in house home separated for about four months. The constant complaint I heard in the months before that, as I panicked and did all the typical nice guy, terrible things to do. Get told you get I love you, but I don't love you. And I'm not in love with you anymore. I was I wasn't hearing her. She didn't feel heard. And so here I have a live example that happened about you know, 30 minutes into this call of where she's at home. It's my one son's birthday today, of course, he's totally over amped. And so he's overtired. And so he screamed at her and stuff. And she said he's overtired by law. So he's talking back and strung out and I suggest were written you know, you read the scream, I said, so I tried to I tried to try to practice I said, that sounds like he's probably on too early. It's really tough. When he gets like that, I hear you. If you want help or to change the plan, just have Ask. And I got back to classic it's fine. So I feel like I failed on the did they Oh did I was trying to convey that care but so a lot of the communications overtax because she doesn't want to talk to me on the phone. She doesn't want that much communication. She's trying to you know, I've done a relatively good job detaching over the last month especially. But, you know, I still want her to know when I when that seems like a very obvious, I'm frustrated. I'm just venting to make sure she felt feels heard. But I can't, I don't know, like, you know, to help me understand is a great example. Like, if I had had that phrase, I might have been I'll say, well help me understand how I can help you. Maybe that would have been a better response, but I don't know. That's like a typical situation where I asked her how her day is, that's not that's not what she's looking for. And it's really tough because she's actually a professional coach as well. knows all that she knows how to do that and be there for people and hear people and that's what she does. Belly basis.

Cynthia 1:24:01


So I'm sorry before she said, she texted back. It's fine. Well, what did you say to her after she vented?

Greg 1:24:12

So what I said was, exactly. Yeah, sounds like he was probably up too early. It's really tough when it gets like that I hear you, if you want help or to change the plan, and this was referring to what our plans were the rest of the day, we're going to go on the boat, just ask.

Cynthia 1:24:31

And Okay, so that is very supportive of you. And you're like holding a great space and you're like, you know, I'm here if you need it, if you don't need it, that's great. I imagine that. We all can be really hard on ourselves, I all of us. And a lot of times women and moms when things are not going well with kids or they're they're struggling Something will have the secret thought in the back of their mind, no matter how much personal work they've done. That's kind of blaming themselves like, Oh, this should have been better. I should, why can't I handle this better? And so I have a feeling that first comment of like, Yeah, he's probably up too early, kind of hit her like, oh, like, I'm not doing a good job as a parent vibration. And then you you couldn't, there was like nothing you could do from that point because she was probably gonna shut down. So the really nice thing about communicating through text is we have these wonderful facial emojis, which can get us out of the gymnastics of trying to find the exact same word and to the exact correct thing to say. So if she's expressing frustration to you and just needs someone to be like, Oh, that's frustrating. Just giving that phrase or sending a few frustrated faces. might just be a way where you can be like, this is not my problem, but hear you and that sounds incredibly incredibly frustrating.

Greg 1:26:10

I'll tell ya, I mean that the early the early mornings actually my fault because I was with him this morning. So if anything, if anything, but he gets he gets up on his own, but that's, that's helpful in the sense that, you know, and as Steve is Steve's my coach said, more periods, less commas, you know, is keeping it shorter, and trying to convey that I hear you, but there's nothing that I need to say to do that. And I just, I find that difficult over text, I tend to use too much, too many words. And so that's, that's helpful to know.

Jeff 1:26:43

Yeah, I'll I'll add one thing to that Greg, which is, if it's any kind of explaining, you can usually leave it out. So if it's logical, then you can leave it out or if you're trying to figure something out, you can leave it out. Otherwise the that's really tough, but sucks, you know, that kind of thing. I love that. facial expressions emojis is a great idea. Or that GIF sir gifts or however the hell you pronounce it. Southern, Southern old man moment,

send them a gift.

Greg 1:27:12

Just because it sounds like you're not hearing them, like you're not holding space because you're not saying anything you're sending, like a funny GIF or something are the emojis back and I, that to me was like that. No, but it sounds like that's actually okay. Yeah, well, it is. My first thought,

Jeff 1:27:27

yeah, if I if I take a step back, if you do something different, she might react a little differently at first, you know, she's going to be kind of surprised by it. So you can't really take the very first initial reaction. But if you try it a couple times and it's it goes over well then great fine. Also with your spouse who's a coach. You could make some inside jokes stuff about that with her you could ask directly you could joke about asking directly. You know, what does the coach part one of you side have you want those kind of things? You can do some inside stuff there. Yeah.

Greg 1:27:58

That's interesting. Yeah, yeah. And usually it If it's her complaining about when I write something like that to her that I'm frustrated one of the kids she's like, Well, what do you want me to do? Like that's frustrating to her when I do it to her? Okay, that's a really so that's a can of worms that battle be their continuation for nice. I avoid that. Now I know better now. That's really good. That's

my question was specifically about this case.

Jeff 1:28:22

No, I love that. I love that though. I'm joking, obviously, because that's a double standard. Right? Yeah. That's not fair. We shouldn't have double standards. But how come I have to write and that I love those because it's called Welcome to being human. Welcome to being a man and a woman. You know, we have different parts. We are different kind of we're humans. We had to hurt people. I love that stuff. So Greg, I appreciate it.

Greg 1:28:48

Thank you. Thank you. Hey,

Jeff 1:28:50

Joshua Peterson I'm sorry man Do you had your hand up and I was able to get to you make sure you punch your email address into the chat and then I will get in touch with you all individually. Okay.

Joshua, thanks for being on there.

Joshua 1:29:04

Yeah, go ahead. Okay, can you hear me? Yes, sure. Okay, I know time is a little short. So I'll try to be concise and ask the input that I'd like to get from Cynthia. Sure. And the feminine side that I'm dealing with now. And I'm just curious to get the insight from which I just can't wrap my mind around our logical men brain, not understand everything about women. And I'll just say I'm a recuperating. Nice guy. About two years ago, I had this awakening when I had just assumed, give everything to my to my wife. She was in the driver's seat. Hey, Joshua,

Jeff 1:29:48

I gotta I gotta press pause for a second. Cynthia, do you have five more minutes to go longer and to talk with Joshua?

Cynthia 1:29:55

Oh, yes.

Jeff 1:29:56

Okay. Because Josh read 1130 right now, so I just want to respect your time. I guess we have five minutes total. Okay, ready? Go.

Joshua 1:30:02

Yeah, so I'm just saying about two years ago and awakening and realize that I've been doing everything wrong and trying to regroup, set the boundaries, find my vision find my place. And I think what I'm dealing with mostly now is with my wife is she has been in the driver's seat and maybe being forced to be in the driver's seat for many years. And now here I am trying to change the course change the dynamics, change the the rules, and say some of it and I feel there's a big resistance. And I'm trying to understand if it's just a process, or where's the woman there, she wants to be in control wants to be in the driver's seat, or why is she resisting it? And I'll fill in details if needed, but I'm just trying to get a what is a woman when feeling about being in control and now being the control or the power balance is being shifted or trying to be shifted in Sort of a we're in fighting for. Yeah, for some sort of dominance and control in the relationship.

Cynthia 1:31:07

Yeah. Well thank you for working on this and doing so much for yourself and you seem very, very in tune to kind of energetic dynamics and how that that works and that that what you just described what that fighting for hierarchy is like I can really, really relate to that. This is probably a deeper conversation just to know more details that like would love to chat with you over email or another time but just to put out there, your wisdom is is right in tune. This is this is a process and she might be she might feel kind of hold up battered down warrior woman, because before when you were not the leader, and she was driving the boat the whole time, it probably in her feminine being made her feel that she couldn't trust, your strength to hold that container, your hierarchy. And so she did this whole like whether it was conscious or unconscious like Well, fine if he's, if he's not going to do this then I want to do this and watch how well I can and now she has kind of like an identity and a little bit of her pride ego and feeling safe in that in that place. So that is not anyone's fault at all. This is just the way dynamics work. It happens between parents and kids that happens between siblings your job right now. You know that you're doing a good job by doing your work. And by continuing to hold that frame, and no one can push us off our throne. Like, you're you get to sit there you get to hold your space. And that's your your step to move forward. And then there's there's probably some other things we could do or you could do with her to help her shift her energy. They saw you breathing a lot through that. Was that a good thing to hear? Was it hard? Was it

Joshua 1:33:40

it's, it's sort of just venting for me. And the support at this moment is, yes, it sounds like you haven't invented anything. And you just have to keep working at it and keep finding the energy and stay the course or keep working.

Cynthia 1:33:57

Yeah, we we all have thing that we're learning in our life and we're all here on our path. So we all we're all kind of in our armor, learning who we are as human beings learning how to be the best person we can be. And you we're not alone in this. And thank you for all that you're doing.

Jeff 1:34:18

Yeah, thank you for being here. Joshua. That was fantastic. Appreciate it. Sure. Fantastic. And I love Cynthia said, no one can push you off your throne.

Right? What a great way to end it.

Nice asik Thank you guys. Make sure to punch your email into the chat if you want us to be in contact or if you have more questions for Cynthia, she's happy to you know, both of us are happy to talk one on one and on email and such. So punch them in punch through email in their email in there. And love that you guys are here.

Fantastic. If I can share

on if I can share that one document again. There we go. Yeah. So visit us at greatness. Then move that's our website and my website and also on YouTube. You can search great men move mountains. And Cynthia has those sea note videos up there. Check her recent one is nothing enough for her because there's nothing enough for her. That's your most recent videos.

Cynthia 1:35:17

Are you asking me that?

Video Clip 1:35:19

Because I checked enough

Jeff 1:35:23

it's enough let it go.

Rob 1:35:25

Cool. Fantastic. Thanks for being here, guys.

1 view

Great Men Move Mountains © 2020

Terms & Conditions